Lessons from our readers

I’m learning to relax & just enjoy my relationship with Him. I’m learning to stop trying to make things happen, but to just relax & see what He is doing. Even a small thing like watching a woodpecker pecking in one of my trees is opportunity to see & know God the creator.

During this time when it seems to me as though I’m not doing much for the kingdom, I believe God is teaching me how to be quiet & rest in Him. Is He really all I need? As I grow in my trust & dependence on Him, the other things I have valued so much that became my identity are losing their hold.

How long will this time of quiet & rest last? I don’t know, but it doesn’t seem as horrible as it used to. I just hope that when this season is up, I’ll be able to flow into the next one more easily.

What am I learning? I guess the answer for is me I am learning alot about myself. It's not that I am learning something new but something I've know since the first days in my relationship with my Father. I learned that I allowed myself to get caught up in religious obligations and walked right out of the personal relationship I once enjoy. The harder I tried to regain that lost relationship the further and harder it was for me. I have found out that I wasn't as dumb as I thought but like many my personal weaknesses of wanting to me liked and accepted by people cuased me to leave the real first love I had experienced. I might say that Jake's story has comfirmed what I actually knew but was afraid to stand upon. For some of us we just need to know that we are not alone and just need a little encourgement. I had lost sight of His love for me by trying to prove I loved Him. He knows I do. Thanks for not being afraid or at least not allowing it to stop you from telling this story.

Jake I will be brief. There is a worldly expression KISS (keep it simple stupid). Jesus said. "Suffer the little children to come unto me." and "For such as these is the kingdom of heaven." and "Unless you become as these little ones you will not enter the kingdom of heaven". One could argue long and hard as to what this really means. If I look at it from the point of law, I find condemnation. If however, I look at it through grace and mercy I find peace and security. The one thing I have found God trying to impress on me has been. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." "In the way you measure it out so will it be measured back to you." "To those who show mercy much mercy will be shown also." Being a natural born coward, I find this very reassuring, and I am trusting in God to change this carnality that exists with me, that through His grace I may become more like Him. Many would argue with this approach, but for me it is the only way I can get a hold on the heart of my Father.

You've certainly been on an interesting pilgrimage - thank you for sharing. I find the person of John interesting but some of what he counsels sounds like "California warm fuzzies" - to me anyway. I've been quite disillusioned with organized religion and well meaning pastors who focus on building buildings, rather than people )ie: undergirding them in love and leading in righteousness and holiness by example so the people can be conformed to the image of Christ.

I disagree with John in that I do not see guilt as bad (manipulation is sin); the problem is the way we deal with it. We can go to the throne of grace to find help in time of need or we can run to the idols of the world (drugs, alcohol, pornography etc.) Walking in love is the goal but this too must be learned - Paul wrote to Timothy "the goal of the instruction is love from a pure heart" Baby believers don't have pure hearts and they don't know how to love or even how to discern between good and evil and Churches are full of baby believers and unbelievers.

I also disagree with John on the subject of accountability because Church discipline is scriptural. Paul dealt publicly with a man in Corinth who was sleeping with his father's wife, eventually telling the Church to turn this man over to satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his soul might be saved in the Day of The Lord. This apostle also taught that since the Church is an organism when one part of the body hurts we all hurt so the practice of sin in one member affects the whole. True our accountability is to God and our sin is against God but responsible Church leaders must deal with those living in overt sin in humility and love if we want to experience God's manifest presence in the assembly and when He shows up we won't need to manipulate flesh.

I find John's thoughts on Eve to be unscriptural. He said: "Eve wanted to be like God which is also exactly what God wants for us. It wasn't what she wanted that got her into trouble, but that she relied on her own strength to get her there." However, scripture teaches us that Eve was deceived (1 Tim 2:14). A deceived person does not know they are deceived and the issue was/is truth vs the lie rather than striving to be "like God" - God had said "If you eat of a certain tree you shall surely die (Gen 2:17) and the serpent came along and told Eve "you shall not die" (Gen 3:4); so Eve had a choice and she believed the deceiver and swallowed the lie.

I'm interested to see where you are headed Jake. I find your Church experience sad but I know it is true as I've been there, done that and can remember the pain of the hook.

Jake's response:

In my view Romans 8:1, specifically rules out condemnation or guilt as a motive for the believer. Once God's love genuinely captures our heart guilt will not help us be transformed, but only to run from him. Genuinely engaging the true love of God, however will propel us down a path of transformation that will set us free from sin and allow us to live in the fullness of his grace. The cross sets us free from that guilt. For people outside of Christ, however, guilt is a powerful force that can, as you say, lead someone to him or drive them into rebellion.

As to accountabiilty, we may be talking apples and oranges here. Nothing I believe about accountability would prevent the body from dealing honestly with the practice of celebrated sin among its participants. Discipline in our common pursuit, and making ourselves accountable to others are two very different things in my view. Scripture only directs our accountability to God and whenever we submit it to another human being, I suspect we're putting them in God's place. Rather, I think body life is how we live out together our accountability to God, not each other. We are only told to love each other with openness, honesty, support and service.

And as to Eve, I agree with what you say here about her deception, but I'm not sure how that discounts the point John raised. Her hunger to be like God may have been a Godly desire, her deception about how to get it, drove her into sin and shame. I think the temptations that are the most seducing are those that appeal to our better motives not our baser ones. How much incredible evil has been done in our world by those who thought they were doing was in God's best interest. Now that's deception.

I love the way you're thinking through these things and your honesty to raise them with me.

It appears that John is teaching Jake what true koinonia really is. Or what true relationship is rather than religion. In the NT scriptures the greek word koinonia is used for most references to fellowship and communion with God. We often hear the word koinonia used for fellowships, coffeehoses, etc. But the word means so much more than fellowship. It refers to a reciprocating, interdependant and contributory relationship. In fact it is clear that we are to foster the same life sharing and love giving relationship that God has formed with us with each other in the Body. In true koinonia God the Father, by His Love, has given us eternal life through Christ, we in return reciprocate with love and give Him back our life. Doesn't the scripture teach that we are to love one another with the love of God. So, you see, koinonia is so much deeper than coffee clutches and pot lucks (which can be wonderful fellowship) but the Lord through His word wants us to see the need and desire for life giving, loving, reciprocal koinonia. It's not just a good suggestion but His Love demands it. If we are not loving one another, that means all who are in the Body, with the same love that He loves us then we are not in true koinonia and do are not truly abiding in His love. Imagine the Church as we all struve to abide in a love that always gives and never expects.

Jake's response:

Love your thoughts here and couldn’t agree more with most of it. The only concerns I had with what you said has to do with words like ‘reciprocating’ and ‘interdependent’ of our relationships. I’m pretty sure I know what you mean, because real koinonia ‘looks’ like that as brothers and sisters learn to walk together in love. But ‘reciprocating’ is one thing Jesus asked us to watch out for. It assumes a contract that will in time diminish love’s freedom not help it. And I don’t think love needs to be ‘dependent’ on each other, even mutually, but simply shares the love of the Father together with freedom and delight.

I think the language of ‘need’ and the language of ‘love’ are two different languages. If we’d really love as freely as we’ve been loved, we’d have more fellowship and help and engagement than any of us could contain.